Sean, as a music producer, what albums had a big impact on you growing up?
Well, the first album I really remember loving was a Jackson Five compilation album. There was something about that family that really spoke to me; how they made it from Gary, Indiana and everything. I loved Michael Jackson’s solo work too but the Jackson Five stuff, that was the band that inspired me. A few years later, when I was nine or 10, I got into rap music. I loved the Rush Hour soundtrack, stuff like that. And then when I was in middle school, Kanye dropped The College Dropout, and man… It was just one of those moments. I loved it; the Motown influence, the Jackson Five kind of sound, flipping it and making it rap. It had a ripple effect.
In what way?
I think it was around the time the album dropped that YouTube was created or started getting popular, and I remember the visuals around that first album really having an impact on me.
“I went to the same high school as Tom Petty. That was the one person I always looked to. I felt like if he made it from here, I can make it from here.”
That’s true! I remember watching the video for Kanye’s “Through the Wire” and being completely enthralled.
Exactly, yeah, videos like that where you got a glimpse into how the music was made, behind the scenes. I started seeking out videos of Kanye or Just Blaze or whoever else making beats. You could see the machines they were using… That’s what really got me interested in making beats. That was around 2005! I got into production in high school and I don’t know, I was pretty shy with it. I wish I had been way more extroverted and confident because my journey in making music really took a long time. I wish I had been more confident in showing people my stuff earlier on.
You were living in Gainesville, Florida at the time. I can’t imagine there was much of a music scene there, so I’m sure that didn’t help.
Yeah, Gainesville is definitely a college town, it’s more about sports and football. But I actually went to the same high school as Tom Petty! So that was the one person I always looked to. I felt like if he made it from here, I can make it from here. And then two of my brothers were moving to LA so I decided to make the jump and move here too. That was a big change because just being around artists and musicians, seeing how they work, going to different studios… It’s so inspiring. When you're in a small town, you get kind of locked in. But LA is an inspiring place, there’s so many little pockets and neighborhoods of creativity and music. It’s exciting and it really gets those creative juices flowing.
Was the music industry a hard one to break into?
It’s very much who you know. It’s networking. For me, it’s been like 20 years of working on breaking into this industry. It’s like, each year you make another connection, it’s kind of like a ladder that you slowly climb up. Some people get their big hit and break early, and then some — like me, I think — are more slow and gradual. You’ve just got to keep working, try to get a record out every year, and people gradually start to hear about you. And if you’re lucky, then you start working with different people. It’s really a wild, wild west kind of thing, there’s no rules, it just depends on who you can get your music to. And then your work ethic determines how far you can go.
The composer Alan Menken says that to succeed in music, you have to love what you do, and love it enough that you’re going to keep doing it even if you don’t make it.
That’s exactly it. He said it perfectly. You have to get up every day and just do it because you because you love it, because you have that passion to want to create. The thing is, when you're coming up with ideas and stuff, 99 percent of the stuff you do is not going to be used. And if it is, it could be months or even a year before it gets released, you really don't know. You really don’t know what’s going to happen, it all depends on another artist liking what you’re doing.
That’s how it happened with your collaboration with fellow producer Mustard — you woke up one morning to hear that Kendrick Lamar had used your beats for his now Grammy-nominated song “Not Like Us.”
Yes, Mustard and Kendrick are both from LA and they had a working relationship. Mustard was working on a couple new ideas for him, he hit me up and we collaborated… We sort of had an idea that Kendrick was interested, but we didn't know for what. This was during Kendrick’s feud with Drake. The following Saturday, he dropped “Not Like Us,” and that was the first time we had actually heard it. It was really just unbelievable, I mean, just as a fan I was already listening and watching the feud developing. I remember my friend texting me that Kendrick had dropped a new track, and I started playing it and it was just surreal, hearing my own music. That weekend people were dancing in the clubs to it, it was playing in the streets… It felt like it was really making an impact in the way that I was talking about earlier. The path of that song has been incredible, I can’t believe I’m a part of something that big.
Obviously the feud alongside Kendrick’s lyricism and status helped propel this particular track to success, but what else do you think makes a hit song?
I wish I knew! I think some of it has to do with making something that might feel nostalgic to people, or something that's catchy, whether that’s the beat or the lyrics. For the most part though, a lot has to do with timing, and the artists and how they perform and promote the record. For example, with “Lovin on Me,” the track I co-produced for Jack Harlow, that was TikTok based. Jack started off by making a video of himself with his dog, rapping alongsiide the track and that sort of set it off. People were making videos dancing to it and it just grew from there.
“This industry is very much about who’s worked on what. And even though working with big artists is important, getting hits is kind of what separates you.”
Do you think it’s possible to make a hit without the help of social media these days?
That’s a good question! I mean, recently, I don’t think I've heard a hit song that is not on social media. But then you kind of wonder, is it the chicken or the egg? Labels are really trying to push stuff on social media, everyone's just on it all the time. It’s kind of the new version of the radio, honestly, it’s how a lot of people discover music, on TikTok and Instagram. I don’t think I can envision a hit song that didn’t have the help of social media to get it there.
How has having that chart topping industry success with “Lovin on Me” changed things for you as a producer?
I mean, it's weird, when you walk in a room of your peers and you don't really have a well-known hit song, it’s not that they don't treat you with respect, but their eyes just don't light up. This industry is very much about who's worked on what. And even though working with big artists is important, getting hits is kind of what separates you. It’s like, being on a Beyonce album is cool, but if it's not the hit, if it's not the single, it’s not really as appreciated. It’s still cool to say you worked on a Beyoncé album, but it makes such a big difference when you produce the standout track.
Are you still trying to push the envelope even further? Rather than sitting back and relaxing now that you’ve had your big hit.
Oh yeah, it has really made work even harder, because now I actually see the possibilities. I see how far you can push it. I’ve always done music every day, so that hasn't really changed, but I'm definitely more inspired right now than ever. The fun thing about the music industry is that you don't know when a song is going to get big, you don’t know the future. And even if I wasn't on any more hits, I'd still love doing music. It doesn't have to be a hit to impact people, and if you're just chasing hits, then that's an unfulfilling way to create music. That’s what I try to stay away from.