Mr. Djawadi, as a composer for film and television, which film scores move you the most?
Of course, John Williams’ score for Star Wars, that is one that just blew me away, just like it did for everybody else, it’s one of the most iconic film scores ever written. I also loved cowboy films growing up, so watching The Magnificent Seven and hearing Elmer Bernstein’s score, that was such a trigger point for me; the melodies that were connected to the bad guys and the good guys and all these different moments that were repeated and modified and carried through the story. I watched that movie over and over and over, and then even when I wasn't watching the movie, I still had those melodies in my head. And so I realized how powerful music can be when it's in connection with picture, and the storytelling that music can do. And so, that was it for me. I thought, “Wow, that's what I want to do when I grow up. I want to do film music.”
What about music for television? Do you have similar memories in that realm?
I'm an eighties kid, so I grew up with TV shows like Magnum PI that I always looked at as a calling card. This was back in the day when there was no streaming, so when you would hear the main title theme come on the television, it was like, “Okay, get ready to watch!” It was the signal in our house for everyone to come gather and sit down and watch this show. I don’t know what it was about that, but it would just stick with you. I’ve always loved main title themes for that reason.
“Composition always starts with me. I try to write something that I can stand behind. I try to always develop myself further.”
It must be so special to now have written some the most iconic contemporary main title themes for television, Game of Thrones and Westworld.
Well, the best part about when you create something iconic is that you don't even know that you have done it. For Game of Thrones, for example, I just tried to something that I felt good about, that touched me emotionally. The keyword they gave me was the idea of “journey.” David and Dan showed me the images of the main title, the landscape, the cities popping up, and they told me about the journeys our characters were going through. That’s what inspired me to write the piece with this sense of momentum and adventure and movement. And then it gets released into the world, it's completely out of your control whether or not people like it. Music is such a subjective thing, you can never please everyone. That’s why for me, composition always starts with me. I try to write something that I can stand behind. I try to always develop myself further, I try to do new things and different things. I just try to let my emotions lead the way and see what happens.
Are you trying to create something totally new and unique for each project? Or do film composers tend to stay within their wheelhouse?
That's what I like about my job, actually, because in film music, every project is different, every story is different, every approach is different, and the people you collaborate with are different too. So when I first meet with the director or producer, I always like to ask them, “Which instruments do you like? Which instruments do you not like?” With Game of Thrones, we always laugh, because David and Dan in the beginning said, “We're very open, but the one thing we want to shy away from are flutes.” That was my only restriction, I can do everything else, but no flutes. And I did! There's not a single flute anywhere. Westworld was still a fantasy series but a little more futuristic, more sci-fi had robots, so we started with piano but we also had synthesizers, we had a player piano, things like that.
How do you ensure that your music adds to the story, rather than overwhelming it?
That's a process. I think it’s something you figure out along the way. We do these spawning sessions where I sit down with the director and the producers again and play through the music, and a lot of the time, we’re asking these kinds of questions: “Are you overpowering? Or are you not doing enough?” So although we’ve discussed what the vision is beforehand, we also have to be able to make changes along the way when maybe you realize there is too much music or that this is too much for the story — or maybe you realize that we’ve underplayed this and it needs more. That’s a process we work on until the very end.
Are there times when you remove the music entirely? Is silence sometimes even more effective than music can be?
Oh, all the time. And many times, as a composer, I'm the last one to suggest that because then it sounds like I don't want to do the work! (Laughs) But many times that is the right answer, because when there is no music, it can be just as powerful. Sometimes it’s what the acting or the scene needs, you don't always need to enhance a moment and shove it down the viewer's throat. We don’t always need to tell the viewer to be emotional by playing emotional music.
Film scoring seems like a completely ego-less process — you’re only working in service of the story, nothing else.
One hundred percent. I always like to say that my motto is, “I can write something that I think is the greatest, the best piece I've ever written, but if the people I'm working with say it's not quite right, then I need to go back and change it.” That's just part of the game of working on a TV show or movie. Everybody has an opinion, and you have to make it work for everybody. That’s the challenging part, but it's also a beautiful thing, because as you say, you’re totally dropping the ego. It’s a long process, it’s a lot of conversation, it’s having a dialogue, and just trying to achieve what’s best for the story, translating the emotions of the scene into musical notes.
“I don’t agonize over it. I’ve learned over time that I’m productive if I’m just living my life, coming back fresh, stepping away from the studio.”
How do you typically go about making that translation? Apparently your first step is usually humming or singing a melody into your phone and evolving it from there.
Yeah, most of what I write is pretty much what I hear in my head first. So you’re right that I start either singing into my phone or if I’m at my studio, then I can just play it right away and start adding in the rest of the sonic palette. And then, if I have time, I always like to let it sit overnight. I always like to write something, go to bed, sleep over it, dream over it, and then come back the next day and hit play. And if I like it, I will keep working on it. Sometimes I come back, and I don’t like it and I start over! I get very destructive; I just throw it out completely. But I don’t agonize over it. I used to be very much like, “Don’t get up until you have it.” And that works sometimes but I’ve learned over time that I’m productive if I’m just living my life, coming back fresh. Stepping away from the studio, going to exercise or swim…
Hans Zimmer told us that whenever he starts a project, he inevitably has a moment where he has no idea what to do, where he stares at the blank page with no ideas. Does that ever happen to you?
I'm very much like Hans, yes! I think part of the reason is just because I learned from Hans, he has been a big mentor and a great friend for me, and I remember when he told me this, it actually made me feel comfortable in my process! We’re the same way, and so that actually made me relax a bit. Once I realized that, it helped me to see that the steps I need to take, you know, sitting down, thinking about what were my initial ideas? What instrumentation do I need? You just place yourself into the project and the ideas will hopefully come. Sometimes it comes easier than other times, sometimes it’s tough especially when a deadline is looming… But that’s the nature of the game. I just try to do the best I can do in the moment.