Ms. Alsop, how would you describe your role as a music conductor?
One way to look at it would be like a director who reads the play and then works with the actors to bring it to life, with a vision to serve the playwright. I think conducting is very similar. I work on the scores on behalf of the composer, and I work with the musicians to bring it to life with a compelling narrative, it’s an interpretation of the piece that serves the composer. You have to bring an artistic point of view and perspective, but you also are only as good as the people that you can inspire. No matter how much I wave my arms, I can't make any sound. So I'm really dependent on the musicians to bring the pieces to life.
Interpretation seems to be a key word there, because I think some people mistakenly believe that every orchestra plays a given piece the same way.
Friends of mine who aren’t musicians, they’ll ask me, “What are you playing tonight?” And I'd say, “Beethoven's Fifth Symphony.” And they reply, “Oh, I’ve heard that one.” (Laughs) You know what I mean? It’s not like a movie, it’s not always the same. It’s all about nuance. It’s more like seeing a play: if you go to a different production with different actors, directed by a different person, it can be a complete different experience. But I think the thing to remember is that it's not my role to impose a vision on the piece. It's my role to try to draw out the vision of the composer. My first responsibility is to the creator, to the composer. It’s not my domain to create the art. I create the performance, I bring the art to life again.
“There’s usually something that triggers a composer to write this piece, and I want to understand that.”
Is that why you often choose pieces by living composers? Does that give you an opportunity to get a more direct connection with their intentions?
Yes, exactly. When it's a living composer, I will always try to have a conversation with them while I'm working on the score, so that I can hear their insight. What compelled you to write this piece? There’s usually something that triggers them to write this piece, and I want to understand that. I want to understand that narrative. And if I can get that right from the composer themselves, then it really gives me a greater insight and a quicker access. I love working with living composers as well, I’ve done probably upwards of 200 premieres in my time.
You’re also well known for championing American composers. Was that aways an area of interest for you, even before you started conducting?
I always liked American jazz and swing music. I started a swing band, and we played together for 20 years. I've always been very drawn to that moment in American musical history where popular and serious music came together: guys like George Gershwin, James P Johnson, Duke Ellington… So when I started my first orchestra in my twenties, I decided to focus on that period of music, and that sort of drew me in.
What else did you learn during those early days that might have had played a role in your career as a conductor?
I guess when I think back on my days as a violinist, for example, it made me realise that leadership is really a key element in determining people's sense of self worth and satisfaction with their work. So I think it's really important that all the leaders set the example, that they create a positive environment for their students and musicians. I really try to create an atmosphere of joy. I always treat musicians with the highest respect, I value them. I try to bring positivity and not just negative nitpicking because I learned when I was a student that negative criticism only takes you so far. If you value their strengths, you have a better chance at success.
Apparently when you got hired at the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, there was quite a lot of pushback from the musicians. How did you go about changing their minds about you?
It was a bit of a hopeless task. I couldn't really change their minds, so I didn’t waste any time being nice, because they didn't like me anyway! Instead I just focused on how I could bring them audiences, funding, recording, projects, touring, all the things that they were missing, and I ended up being the longest serving music director in their history. So it worked. But I couldn't be anxious about it working, because you can't push those things you know. You have to build that trust.
Is there an element of friendship or camaraderie involved in being a leader as well? I read in one of your older interviews that you once had an orchestra come to rehearsals dressed just like you as an affectionate prank.
(Laughs) Yes, that was at a festival that I took over. I never got quite to that level of intimacy with the Baltimore musicians, but I think in a festival environment you have a much better chance of creating that kind of rapport, and that is wonderful because it’s so important to be able to laugh at yourself or be a bit self-deprecating. As a conductor, you're in front of a lot of people, it's almost as though you're under a magnifying glass. Everything you do is exaggerated. So it's important that you also own who you are and what you do.
“You have to be so passionate about the music that you almost lose yourself in it. When I’m conducting, it’s not about me at all. It’s about the music and what I’m tasked at.”
I’ve watched some videos of you conducting, and you move very assuredly despite this, there’s no hesitation. Do you have to be a bit fearless for this profession?
You have to be so passionate about the music that you almost lose yourself in it. When I'm conducting, it's not about me at all. It's about the music and what I'm tasked at. So I think that's why I feel confident in my movements. I’ve practiced and I've really thought it through. I do think that being a great leader does have some qualities of fearlessness, but I also think it’s good to sometimes be fearful as well. You also have to be able to understand how to follow and how to listen.
Can you recall what it was like the first time the first time that you stepped on stage in your professional career? Did that fear come into play then?
Oh no, the thing I remember is that I wasn't scared at all. I was so excited. The original conductor hadn’t shown up, and all my friends were like, “Oh, Marin wants to conduct!” Some of the guys in the brass, they said, “Oh, man, it's a girl…” At the end, these guys came over and they said, “You’re really great. We never noticed you were a girl.” And I was like, Oh, thanks a lot. What a backhanded compliment, but I took it for what it was, that they just took me as a conductor, which wasn’t always the case back then.
It’s something that you’ve spoken about previously, that when you first started conducting, you faced a lot of rejection. How did you find the strength to keep going?
I was angry, annoyed and a little frustrated. But I didn't really ever take it personally. I also didn't have quite enough experience yet, so I knew I had a lot to learn. So when I would hear no, I would try to find out what went into their decision. If there was any kernel of something I could glean and learn from, I would. If they said, “Oh, well, you move too much when you conduct,” or “You don’t have enough experience with this repertoire,” okay, I can get that. That's a valid point. There's always a measure of truth in everything people say, the bad reviews, and the good reviews. What would have been unhelpful is simply saying, “Oh, well, they just don't like me because I'm a woman.” Because then what happens is that I don't go back to the drawing board. It just gives you a pass, you don't have to think about it, and then you're not learning.
Is that something you’re instilling in your students, musicians, and mentees these days?
Yes, but I also want to try to create opportunities for other conductors, particularly women conductors, to not have to have that many challenges or barriers thrown up in front of them. I want them to be able to swim past that and get into the bigger ocean. I want to try to make their path a little bit easier, and just give them an opportunity to fail, which is why I created the Taki Alsop Conducting Fellowship program. I tried to identify what was holding women back, and I decided that it was mostly a lack of opportunity and a lack of opportunity to fail. You know, a woman only has one chance to fail while your male counterpart can fail three out of 10 times and still be successful. So I want to give women chances to fail, to experiment, to take more risks. That’s how it started.