Gaggan, before you became a Michelin star chef and owner of your own restaurants, you were a drummer in a rock band. Are there still qualities of the drummer alive in you as a chef?
Oh, everything from the drummer is still in me. Everything about punk rock. I remember watching Nirvana on MTV playing “Smells Like Teen Spirit,” and that changed my life. That’s when I fell in love with drumming, watching them playing music in a dark room, I could channel all my teenage anger into the snare so hard. It made me a rebel. That led me to eventually choosing a university, not by ranking, but the one that was furthest from my family, so I could have freedom. And from there, there was no turning back, I carry that Kurt Cobain punk rock personality. That ego is in my cooking. I’m fearless in everything I do, in everything I cook. But if you mean in a tangible sense, I would say my knife skills are better thanks to drumming! (Laughs)
Have you always had a deep connection with music?
Yes, I’m a xennial, so my first interaction with music would have been a vinyl or a cassette player… I remember my dad bought me a Sony Walkman, although I was listening to Bollywood at that time, and when I put the headphones on, it was incredible. It gave me a disconnect from the world, I was in a different place.
“I’m anti-fine dining. I’m anti-establishment, I’m anti-everything!”
And now at your restaurant, Gaggan, each dish on the menu is set to corresponding song. There’s even sing-a-longs during the meal.
We call that curry-oke! We eat a curry dish and sing karaoke along to seven or eight songs; Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears, Oasis, Bon Jovi… There’s a dish which uses all purple ingredients, and when it’s being eaten, we play “Purple Rain.” The restaurant has become a completely musical experience. It started because we would play some background music years ago, but now it’s almost like theater. It’s been an evolution, now the music is the forefront, it’s loud, there’s a disco ball, it’s fully immersive. I’ve also started a no phones rule this year so the guests are really inside of this experience for two and a half hours, it’s the 15 of us in one room, leaving everything else at the door.
It’s very different to your typical fine dining experience, no?
Absolutely. I’m anti-fine dining. I’m anti-establishment, I’m anti-everything! We serve no caviar, no truffles, no lobsters, no fancy ingredients. I want to make the eggplant the hero. I’ve always believe that cooking is this: it’s the ugly potato that was born underground with no sunlight, and then it’s made into Belgian fries. That’s cooking. Everything else, eating pizza with truffles and caviar on it has disgraced us as humans. Ramen omakase, food with gold on it, we’ve disgraced ourselves in many ways.
With that in mind, how do you grapple with the price tag of an evening at your restaurant?
I’ve thought about it and it’s been a debate inside me. First off, I use good quality ingredients. Second is that I have 30 employees in one restaurant, and I want to pay them well in this age of inflation. So those things are important for me to uphold. And what we charge per person includes everything, the wine pairing, gratuity, service charge, everything. This price is something only afforded to us in Bangkok, I couldn’t charge that kind of price in New York or London. But you’re right that it’s still expensive for some people, it’s something that the average person might have to save up for. If that’s not for you, you also have the choice to head upstairs to have a casual meal at my other restaurant, Ms. Maria and Mr. Singh. So the choice is yours.
How do you measure success as a chef? You once said that success to you means innovating every day.
Look, I’m not comparing myself to iPhones or something, but innovation comes with the evolution of my own cooking. It could come in three days, it could come in three hours, it could be there sitting on a note for 12 years. I don’t believe in perfection. Perfection is there, until you reach a point and then you climb the next peak. It’s like mountaineering, you’ve got to climb a peak and then you’ve got to come down and climb again. That’s the lesson of my life, That’s why I have inked myself with a phoenix tattoo because it reminds me that you have to die, to burn, and come back again, and that is evolution, that is human, that is us. Our existence is all about this. So for me, the innovation that I’m talking about is just evolving, growing, finding new perspectives, converting memories or even pain into a dish.
It sounds like food is the most personal and exciting thing in the world for you.
Absolutely. For me, food is the greatest adventure. It is really related to when I was young, and I would travel to a country, put my tongue in something I’ve never eaten, and saying, like, “Wow, what the fuck is that? Why did I eat that? I hate it,” or “What did I just eat? I love it!” That is adventure that cannot be taught in a book.
Is that the kind of experience you’re hoping to give to your guests?
I never think about what I’m hoping to give. I never put myself in the guest’s position at all, I don’t think about that. I just do what I want to do.