Mr. Veloso, as a cinematographer, is there a certain magic to shooting in a natural environment?
Absolutely, I love shooting in nature. I feel like shooting in the real world is so much more inspiring than shooting on a sound stage. I understand why people might like to shoot on soundstages — you have full control. But I honestly believe that most of the good things that have happened to me on set came from not having control, from the surprises that can take place on location: a light that hits in a specific way in one certain day, and you dare to catch it there. The birds and the animals, the way the wind is, those are elements you can’t really recreate. And when you don’t have that control, when you are embracing those things that simply happen, when you’re embracing that magic… That’s always for the best.
It must also just be infinitely more inspiring to work on location rather than with a green screen.
It is definitely so inspiring to be in those actual places, you know, whether that’s the Amazon where we worked on Rodentes, to the Pacific Northwest on Train Dreams, or an actual real live race track on Jockey… There’s always something so beautiful that that place is going give to you. You step into a forest, and the air feels different. Everything feels different. It puts you in a different state to shoot. And for the actors as well, to really feel what they are feeling, that’s definitely worth it.
“I feel like often our first instincts are probably the most cliche ones. I prefer those surprises and the things that get out of hand.”
When did you first realize that nature can be a narrative force in film?
I have always felt like locations and environment shouldn’t be viewed as a background. I feel like they are part of what we are, and I always felt like I was highlighting that on past films. I did a movie in London during the winter a couple years ago, and I didn’t see the sun for months. That impacted my mood so much that I was kind of depressed by the end of it! Working on Train Dreams, being in this ancient forest… It effected us so much that I felt like it was important to portray that in a movie, to make that space a character too. I wanted to give nature a voice, we didn’t want it to look like a postcard or a backdrop, we wanted it to be a character. So we shot it like we would any other character in the movie, we would frame nature the same way we would frame the actors, but instead it’s a plant, a tree, the forest…
Apparently you also chose to adapt to the weather, rather than waiting for the weather to change. If it rained or was overcast, you rolled ahead anyway.
Yeah, totally. That’s something I learned from working with Clint Bentley on Train Dreams and also on Jockey, he does that a lot if there are, for example, animals or children or non-actors. Instead of waiting for this kid to do what you’re planning, just embrace what they’re doing in the moment. If you want them to cry, you might be waiting for hours and that can be frustrating. So let’s just embrace it. It was the same thing for the weather. Okay, we imagined that it would be sunny, but now it’s cloudy, so why not? Often those things would be for the better! You would end up with a scene more interesting than what we initially thought. I feel like often our first instincts are probably the most cliche ones. I prefer those surprises and the things that get out of hand.
You spent some time filming just you and the lead actors, Joel Edgerton and Felicity Jones, in quite an intimate, unplanned way. Did good surprises come out of those moments as well?
Oh, yes, for sure. We wanted the set to be kind of empty, to almost have this feeling that the crew was just a few people and the actors. Everybody was kind of hiding somewhere so we could actually turn the camera and have a 360 shot. That got everyone out of their comfort zones and required a lot of prep work. On top of that, we wanted everything to be really real so that the actors could inhabit those spaces, so they could really cook and use everything in the cabin including the candles and lamps. As much as possible, we as the crew were invisible, so Joel and Felicity really felt like they were in the cabin in the 1920s in the middle of the woods… So there came a time when I would just follow them around, unscripted and unplanned, as they cooked and interacted and moved around, it was very intimate. Almost like a ballet, following them around, dancing around them, reacting to them. It’s a way of shooting that I really love. It was almost like jazz or something, just going along and improvising together.
“I’ve loved having this space to experiment, to try things out, new equipment, different languages… It’s all been a school for me.”
You did something similar on your previous film with Clint Bentley, Jockey.
That’s where those ideas came from, actually! When we shot Jockey, those conditions were kind of mandatory on us, because it was such a small movie. We did a movie with a crew of 10 people, a budget of $300,000 and shooting on a real racetrack with mostly non-actors. We had a very small footprint, and there were some moments where I filmed alone with Clifton Collins Jr., so when we were planning everything to shoot Train Dreams, we took a lot of inspiration from the way we shot that Jockey.
You really seem to thrive on those challenges, no?
Sure, it all just makes you more creative. Especially coming from a background of filmmaking in Brazil, we don’t necessarily have all the time, the conditions, the equipment, or whatever, so we’ve learned to be very creative.
How was it transitioning from the Brazilian film industry, to working more internationally in recent years?
It’s funny because film sets are kind of the same all over the world, the dynamics are a bit the same. Of course in the US and the UK, everything is really industrialized, there’s a lot of rules, and there’s a lot of specific ways of working. I would get frustrated with that! Why can’t we do it like this? But again, that’s just another challenge and it means that I get to learn more from different people and different places, different ideas, and put it all into this melting pot of knowledge. That’s also how it’s always been for me, I’ve worked in commercials and advertising, I did short films and music videos, docuseries, a bit of everything… And I’ve loved having this space to experiment, to try things out, new equipment, different languages… It’s all been a school for me. And it’s been amazing to have that space to explore, so that now when something goes wrong, I’m not afraid.
It must feel really surreal to come from those experimental beginnings, to now being Oscar nominated. Does it feel like you’ve arrived?
It’s completely surreal. I would honestly never have imagined it. It’s a dream for any filmmaker, but especially coming from Brazil, it is a dream that feels almost like a utopia! We haven’t had any cinematographers from Brazil who were nominated for an Oscar… It’s like a dream. Especially for this movie that was a bit smaller in scale and budget, so I’m so proud of our team’s accomplishment, and I really couldn’t be happier.